Web site redesign

dldeskins · Joined: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 128 Location: NE TN

Hello all,

We are in the process of doing a complete web site redesign at our church. I have been edgy about the site, wanting to change it, for about 1 1/2 years now. When I designed the site some 3 1/2 years ago, I thought it was quite nice, but with changing technologies and trends, I thought that we needed a change. During the past 6 months, the pastor had requested that certain things be removed, which left the site rather chopped up (in my opinion, anyway).

We are a very youth oriented congregation... "Kids, youth, young adults, and those who want to remain young" as the pastor described today. We are also very "artsy" with at least 3 professional graphic artists in our congregation.

It looks like the site has been left to me to redesign (along with other non-graphic people), the artists have gracefully backed out for various reasons. I really just need a basic template that would function as a template for every page on the site. We want the site to be as our congregation is... the same personality.

I would like to go with a layout using CSS, but the web sites that I have seen (other than a few) have ended up looking like a blog (I have my work cut out for me convincing the pastor to stay away from Flash, etc). I want to use CSS in the effort to keep "content and style separate"... (I believe that is the way that the web is headed, not toward flash as stated in another thread). The really nice "presentation" type of web sites usually use tables for layout or use flash.

Do any of you have suggestions? Do you have any examples of web sites that might serve as examples?

Thanks in advance,
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Don Deskins

Doy · Joined: 15 Jan 2004 Posts: 18 Location: Cochrane, Alberta

Just saw the University of Florida website. Great use of CSS/XHTML AND Flash. It uses the "Flash Satay" method from ALA, which I've also used on the new Henry Blackaby site.

That UF site (even though I'm a "rabid" Georgia Bulldog fan) is really good. A great example of what can be done. And the CSS file is REALLY small!

That's one good example. Also check out The WDDG. Incredible site, and VALID, too.

Also, the Senior PGA site is a valid site using CSS/XHTML and Flash.

Not every valid site has to look like a weblog, but I understand the concern.

Also, I don't think selling CSS has to be arduous. I would just say, "I'm going to build this site in such a way that more people can view it -- even disabled internet users. You can still have moderate use of Flash and other interactivity, but the page sizes will be smaller, load times faster, and search engines will find us better."

I think that's a good sell.
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Doy
www.doycave.com

dldeskins · Joined: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 128 Location: NE TN

Doy,

Thanks for the reply.

At the same time I posted this, I also sent an e to the pastor and gave him examples of sites that were very good (the blackaby site was included). The one that turned him on the most was: http://www.glish.com/css/noah.asp . This is actually a site redesign, substituting table layout with CSS layout. He also made comments of how he like the black and white ones the best.

I found a web site that has examples of web sites that were laid out with CSS... http://www.meryl.net/css/

Thanks again,
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Don Deskins

carrot · Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 70 Location: Sydney, Australia

Don,

Have you seen CSS Zen Garden? May not be good examples for Church sites, but certainly shows the full potential of CSS design.

Every design uses the same XHTML, it's just the CSS that changes.

Simon
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Personal Site · Toongabbie Anglican Church

dldeskins · Joined: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 128 Location: NE TN

Simon,

Wonderful, Wonderful, Wonderful! That is exactly what I needed to get me started... the same html with different css's. I have never seen anything like this site.

Thank you very much!
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Don Deskins

Frank · Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 11:00 pm Post subject:

That is cool, Simon. I wanted to do NetFaith FrontSide like that but some of the stuff was hard to get right in all browsers. I copped out and used a few tables when my pages didn't render well.

I checked out Zen CSS Garden with every browser I have and it looks about the same in all of them.

One problem I have noticed in IE is that sometimes a page will load that IE didn't find the stylesheet for. What a mess! I haven't noticed it happening in Firefox but I have only been using it for a couple of weeks. It happens often enough that it was a consideration that also limited my "full CSS site."
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Showing forth the reality of our living LORD
Frank

carrot · Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 70 Location: Sydney, Australia

Frank · Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:25 am Post subject:

As I recall, it did all line up one after another and it was readable. Maybe "mess" wasn't quite right. Unattractive is better.

I think this question follows the vein of the topic. I use pMachine for CMS. Those templates are mostly tables. Forms are particularly troublesome. I put them in DIV tags and give them a postion:absolute; to make them stay put but the format of the table gets screwed up. Is there a better way of doing that?

Example: New entry

Although the page claims to be xhtml1-transitional, the pMachine tables are clearly not. Is that a problem?
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Showing forth the reality of our living LORD
Frank

carrot · Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 70 Location: Sydney, Australia

See this article for an example of forms with CSS.
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Personal Site · Toongabbie Anglican Church

dldeskins · Joined: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 128 Location: NE TN

I am glad to see that someone is benefitting from this discussion besides me. I have been doing backend stuff for so long, that I have not kept up with CSS. I only found out about layout with CSS about two years ago, but have done very little with it.

Something that I can't seem to get used to is all the div tags (along with the inheritance that goes with it). Smile

Guys, thanks for sharing your knowledge! I appreciate it.
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Don Deskins

Frank · Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2004 11:36 am Post subject:

Good info, Simon. I got my forms squared away and looking presentable.

The CSS Zen Garden site is really interesting -- not that I expect to build anything quite so complex but I am learning a lot just comparing the stylesheet to the html.

I need to work on getting my stylesheets so well organized. All those OOPS! additions I need just go at the end. Too late for a New Year's resolution. Have to wait until next year.

Is there an easy way to replicate the valign used in tables with CSS?
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Showing forth the reality of our living LORD
Frank

carrot · Joined: 06 Jan 2004 Posts: 70 Location: Sydney, Australia

Frank, found this article this morning - more CSS & Forms.
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Personal Site · Toongabbie Anglican Church

Jones · Joined: 30 Dec 2003 Posts: 13 Location: Merseyside, UK

The Zen site is gorgeous!

When I did our church site a couple of years ago I chose to use CSS so that I'd be able to change the look and feel of the whole site if I wanted to. Funny thing is, I haven't changed it yet (though I think the time is drawing near...)

The basic layout looks like tables have been used, but the placement of the menu, graphics, and background gif to the top and side are all managed through the stylesheet.

It's wonderfully easy to add new pages, and I'd have to say that's the single biggest win for me.

www.hoylakeevangelical.org.uk
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Think like a man of action; act like a man of thought.

dldeskins · Joined: 28 Dec 2003 Posts: 128 Location: NE TN

identityministries · Joined: 29 Sep 2005 Posts: 13 Location: Oklahoma City

DotNetNuke is a great way to have a website template, and it is easy to customize... it uses html and css. And it is easy to insert new pages and info. We use it on our website.

If you are looking for someone to design it for you, talk to they guy who designed ours Webhost4Christ http://webhost4christ.org he designed the template, and hosted the site for us, and is very affordable! Very Happy

and he is a friend of mine, so i can vouch for him. Wink

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God Bless,

Identity Ministries
http://identityministries.org